Archie Sally Gets a Redesign [Spoiler]

[tails]

@ mi-24. I'm happy that my post brought you some joy

[Skotty]

He is right. They wouldn't have survived until today without Archie. But somehow this sentence expresses the opposite of SatAM is: "they need to mesh with the way the Sonic franchise". It was totaly different than every Sonic stuff.
However, lets see what follows next.

[PorpoiseMuffins]

I have mixed feelings. I don't agree with the way that Ian put it (i.e. "Sally and the SatAM cast are old, out-dated, niche characters."), but I don't have a problem with the idea of giving the cast a more 'modern Sonic' look if it helps them to make them more relevant (actually, it should have been done a long time ago if they were going to do it). This particular design reminds me of several of the 'Sega-fied' Sally images I've seen from fans over the years. And I'm curious when Ian says that this is part of a "larger game plan."

I still find the idea that male Sonic characters can be naked but females can't to be a bit troubling (it's more about how they're drawn that should be the concern, I think), but that may or may not be a serious factor in this decision anyway.

[DaddlerTheDalek]

Sooooooo. This is her new Style. I have to see more before I judge.

[Elisto Dragonwings]

Yeah, oh, so outdated, that's why everyone still likes them!!

And no, it's not shallow. How you design a character says something about them. You can't just put them in anything and say it's fine. I just can't comprehend how someone who has repeatedly shown he has no clue how to realistically portray characters can possibly be a "professional".

And why in the world does he have to be such a jerk about it? He doesn't know how to explain himself nicely? Way to represent your product there!

[PorpoiseMuffins]

I'd have to agree. Some more tact wouldn't hurt.

[Armaturkey]

Logiteeka is right on point. Unfortunately, I do agree with the change. I'm not neccessarely a complete fan of the actual design they are thinking about using (though i'd probably get used to it), but I do not mind that they are doing so.

Every so often, change becomes necessary. Why? Well, the staleness of the designs are one thing. Remember, this isn't the first time her design has been changed. It also won't be the last. She tends to be one of the most changed because she is a very dynamic character and a main part of the story more often than not.

Now that said, I do agree that using the current storyline for the change is dumb. However, I don't think that will end up happening.

More likely than not, the design they showed at NYCC will more than likely be adapted or tweaked a lot more. The purpose of a mass showing like that is to gauge the reaction to the design or adaptation. If it comes of poorly or is very mixed, then they look at what can be fixed. If it comes off well... well then I don't really need to say what they do lol.

[Armaturkey]

Ya, he was a little brash about it. Though I don't necessarily disagree. What he is talking about with SATAM is that they are of a cult fan base. That is completely true in todays sense. I wish SATAM had a broader audience, but sadly, it doesn't. He may have said it in a wierd way, but I think that is what he is trying to get across.


I do agree with what elisto says too. A design tells a story of it's own right. I think it will, in the end be redesigned at some point before the actual release though. In some way shape or form what they showed a NYCC won't be the full thing we actually see.

We'll have to wait and see how it's implemented though. it's something im rather excited about seeing (plus i agree with porpoisemuffins that the change was long overdo).

[Elisto Dragonwings]

Yeah, I mean, if I decided Sonic should always wear a dress (outside of the silliness of AoStH), most fans would probably complain. How you dress your character matters, and says something not just about the character, but what the creator's intentions are as well. How can a storyteller, especially in a visual medium like a comic, not get that?

And you know, despite how Ian seems to imply that he's saving the characters by keeping their designs current (never mind the hypocrisy of saying that at the same time he says it's shallow to worry about their designs), I just don't understand why "current" means doing the one thing long-time fans generally don't want...Sally with pants and a closed shirt. Ian's a fan, as he's often pointed out; I know he knows this, I'd imagine others at Archie are aware of this too (since I don't know who's actually responsible for the redesigns). How about a "modern" look that doesn't disregard the old fans, huh?

[Elisto Dragonwings]

Well given what Ian's response to fans has been, I don't think they care what we think.

And you know, like I said, I can understand wanting to keep a character's appearance current, but to do that without taking into account what makes sense for the character is a pretty poor way to do it.

[Gojira007]

I'm kind of on two minds about the whole thing, to be honest. The design itself isn't bad per se. Taken on its own terms, it's mostly fine, though as I keep coming back to, I sincerely miss the tufted cheeks, and can't say I buy needing to smooth them out as part of "SEGA"fiying the design.
But once you start getting into the unavoidable..."politics" feels like the wrong word here, but it's the only one I can think of...surrounding the design, it all gets a lot murkier.

For my money, I don't begrudge Flynn a certain degree of edge in his comments given how extremely belligerent some fans are about nearly every decision he's ever made since starting work on the Comic, nor do I think he's being overly harsh here; even if you disagree with his take on the situation, I don't feel like he's being dishonest or overly-combative, simply stating the situation as he sees it, even if it is in fairly stark terms.
Likewise, I don't think he's being anything less than sincere with his overall sentiment: he loves Sally, he loves SatAM, and he wants to keep them as part of the Book. We may disagree with his choice of methods, but his goal does indeed seem to stem from a genuine desire to keep those elements involved in the story; this is just his way of doing that.

That said, I'm also not entirely in agreement with his logic. I don't entirely see how Sally's design is particularly out of place in the Archie World at large, for starters. Maybe I'm too used to her original look, maybe it's the simple fact that Sal's design has changed a bit over the years to fit the overall aesthetic of the Artists working on the Book, but the notion that her design is grossly out of place strikes me, personally, as a bit overblown. I don't want to idly dismiss the notion, as this is a very subjective area of discussion, but nonetheless I don't entirely buy it.
Likewise, I think Flynn's comment about how "shallow" fans are for thinking Sal's clothes define her is both mistaken and misses the point. As others have pointed out, first off, Design is absolutely part of a Character. True, it's not the sum total; Batman's still Batman, after all, whether he's wearing gray-on-blue spandex or all-black armor, and I think that's the sentiment Flynn was going for. But it's still an unquestionably powerful part of how audiences identify with a character in a visual medium, and in Sally's case in particular there is a rather important element of it that Flynn sadly ignores.
Others have pointed it out already, but it's still worth repeating: the clothing standards in "Sonic" character design are kind of insultingly sexist. Boys get to walk around entirely in the nude, while girls have to cover up their shameful bodies. Having Sally as an exception to that annoying trend meant something, and no matter how well-meaning this redesign, it takes that away from her. That's not "shallow" in the least, and I'm a little disappointed in Flynn for missing that.

[Hakuzo NightFox]

NAR(Not another redesign)

For the longest time the characters were fine, then When Sonic Adventures came around they redesigned the characters to look like 'new' sonic characters. Then here recently they redesigned even more characters. NOW they are redesigning them again?.... Really now they are not sega :/.

[Skotty]

One additional thing he says: "These characters have survived solely thanks to the Archie books"
He is partly right. But I am sure they would survive without Archie, too. There are still too many people who know the show and too many of them are doing art based on SatAM. Seems like Flynn thinks Archie has every right to do whatever with SatAM what they want, because they are SatAM's saviour

[Skotty]

Well given what Ian's response to fans has been, I don't think they care what we think.

I absolutely agree. For me it's another sign how to throw away that old SatAM core. Keeping the character but changing it as much as possible so nobody knows where Sally comes from.
Well but they will keep that of course and after a while nobody will complain anymore because her new design will be standard... as always. Minorities don't count.
They already made a lot of strange changes in the story to leave that SatAM stuff and to go into a more SEGA friendly direction (for example killing Robotnik to introduce the current clown-villain we have).

[LogiTeeka]

I absolutely agree. For me it's another sign how to throw away that old SatAM core. Keeping the character but changing it as much as possible so nobody knows where Sally comes from.
Well but they will keep that of course and after a while nobody will complain anymore because her new design will be standard... as always. Minorities don't count.
They already made a lot of strange changes in the story to leave that SatAM stuff and to go into a more SEGA friendly direction (for example killing Robotnik to introduce the current clown-villain we have).

Personally, I think Eggman's a better villain than Julian.

Jim Cumming's bone-chilling performace was scary, but that's all he had going for his character. Other than that, everything else about him was pretty generic. Julian's backstory was never fully covered (not even in the comics), and we never got to explore his personality. There's a limit to how scary you can make a villain that walks around in a red jumpsuit and cape with a large mustache.

Eggman, on the other hand, is both funny and scary at the same time; which not only balances everything out, but also makes him a much more memorable character. His goofy appearance and quirkiness gives him a funny angle, while his ambitions and psychotic determination are what makes him scary.