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  • So... patent reform.

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    So... patent reform.

    Postby Neon Black on August 24th, 2011, 6:37 pm

    If anyone here doesn't follow all the nerdy tech news as much as others, there's recently been a bit of a spat between some of the bigger software players: namely, according to Google, Microsoft and Apple are ready to link arms against them, whose Android operating system they claim violates a laundry list of patents. Microsoft and Google have been exchanging blows via Twitter and their blogs, while Apple has remained characteristically silent on the issue. According to Google:

    But Android’s success has yielded something else: a hostile, organized campaign against Android by Microsoft, Oracle, Apple and other companies, waged through bogus patents.

    They’re doing this by banding together to acquire Novell’s old patents (the “CPTN” group including Microsoft and Apple) and Nortel’s old patents (the “Rockstar” group including Microsoft and Apple), to make sure Google didn’t get them; seeking $15 licensing fees for every Android device; attempting to make it more expensive for phone manufacturers to license Android (which we provide free of charge) than Windows Phone 7; and even suing Barnes & Noble, HTC, Motorola, and Samsung. Patents were meant to encourage innovation, but lately they are being used as a weapon to stop it.

    A smartphone might involve as many as 250,000 (largely questionable) patent claims, and our competitors want to impose a “tax” for these dubious patents that makes Android devices more expensive for consumers. They want to make it harder for manufacturers to sell Android devices. Instead of competing by building new features or devices, they are fighting through litigation.

    Google's recent acquisition of Motorola has been largely thought to be a move for Google to prepare for a drawn of battle of attrition -- currently their patent portfolio has been limited to a few hundred, while Microsoft and Apple's portfolios number in the tens of thousands, with thousands more currently in the queue to be either approved or rejected.

    Much of what this whole patent arms race is illustrating is a large set of major flaws in the US patent system (which in turn affects international companies, in turn affecting the rest of the world) -- the patent office gets spammed constantly with so many applications, it is approving applications that are ambiguous, or in some cases possibly contradict previously approved patents. All of these companies, open source software implementations like Linux, and thousands of smaller-scale independent software companies are all violating multiple patents in their work at this point -- essentially this means that if you make software or come up with a process, you can be sued at almost any time, and lose, for pretty much no practical reason except to allow the plaintiff to make money. So widespread is this problem that there are entire organisations dedicated to making their bread and butter by suing people.

    So, how would you people propose the problem be dealt with?

    Personally I'm of the (callously idealistic) opinion that software and process patents just shouldn't exist. They shouldn't be given a shorter lifetime, or have a more stringent review process, they should just not exist. At this point in time, the patent system does not favour the interests of the most innovative, it just favours the interests of the most wealthy, which completely misses the point of the patent system. At the very least, the current set of current approved patents should be given a major pruning if not just tossed out the window altogether.

    If you've got a good idea, it should be practically expected that people are going to copy it. In the end, this gives a net benefit to everyone. If you want to protect your idea, a patent at this point won't really help because it's probably already been filed for by someone else who had zero intention of creating a product from it anyway. The smart thing to do is just play your cards close to your chest and push your idea as hard as you can to make it known that you were first on the scene with it.
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    Re: So... patent reform.

    Postby PorpoiseMuffins on August 25th, 2011, 1:53 am

    Neon Black wrote:Personally I'm of the (callously idealistic) opinion that software and process patents just shouldn't exist. They shouldn't be given a shorter lifetime, or have a more stringent review process, they should just not exist. At this point in time, the patent system does not favour the interests of the most innovative, it just favours the interests of the most wealthy, which completely misses the point of the patent system. At the very least, the current set of current approved patents should be given a major pruning if not just tossed out the window altogether.

    If you've got a good idea, it should be practically expected that people are going to copy it. In the end, this gives a net benefit to everyone. If you want to protect your idea, a patent at this point won't really help because it's probably already been filed for by someone else who had zero intention of creating a product from it anyway. The smart thing to do is just play your cards close to your chest and push your idea as hard as you can to make it known that you were first on the scene with it.


    This. I have sympathy for copyrights, but patents are the antithesis of competition and (although it may surprise some) capitalism itself. You cannot have a competitive market when patent holders are legally protected from competition. Every modern innovation is built upon thousands of years worth of human invention and ingenuity. Progress happens when people see something done one way and make it better, either by doing if more efficiently or by improving the quality. That's competition.

    Like you say, keep your cards close to your chest... contracts with non-disclosure agreements, trade secrets, etc. If it's a good idea, you'll have an advantage when you come to market by being the first. But once it's out there, it's out there. Other people can't (and really shouldn't) be prevented from improving upon it or finding a way to do it cheaper.

    I hate to think of all of the innovation that patents have stifled, how many people with great ideas have decided not to pursue them for fear of being sued, and how much time and resources have been wasted in litigation (and in the granting of patents to begin with). It's a good thing that patent law isn't always taken to its logical extreme, or we'd be in rough shape for sure!
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    Re: So... patent reform.

    Postby Hakuzo NightFox on August 25th, 2011, 5:49 am

    :twanscared: wow.... this is another reason why this country makes me mad.... Everything is always about money this and money that, and nothing about quality anymore. Monopolies are illegal but the patents are like holding a monopoly over a single product.

    So those that have money get to claim they need to keep future money protected? really now... for the normal class of people we have no way to garuntee that we will have a job tomorrow or still get income. Big business stunts like this make me sick.
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    Re: So... patent reform.

    Postby Neon Black on August 28th, 2011, 5:47 pm

    Hakuzo NightFox wrote::twanscared: wow.... this is another reason why this country makes me mad.... Everything is always about money this and money that, and nothing about quality anymore. Monopolies are illegal but the patents are like holding a monopoly over a single product.

    I don't think it's any more or less about money than it always has been in business (I think mind share is something companies will aspire to more, as it helps produce a steady stream of cash in the door) but it's true that patents do more to encourage anticompetitive handling of business than anything when you're talking about software and processes, both of which are things that are intangible and thus very hard to enforce laws on in the traditional paradigm.

    It's a bit weird that the EU has been on Microsoft's case for anticompetitive strategies all this time like with the infamous browser ballot in EU versions of Windows 7, and yet on the other side of the pond they're freely allowed to buy out patents left and right in this arms race... but then, the whole browser ballot thing seemed kind of farcical to me anyway. OS X includes Safari by default while making no mention of any other browser, and nary an eyebrow was raised about that.
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    Re: So... patent reform.

    Postby PorpoiseMuffins on August 28th, 2011, 7:42 pm

    Most antitrust law is pretty farcical, and usually amounts to a bunch of companies ganging up against another for being too successful.

    It's a business's job to make money. But it's our job to make sure the institutional framework is such that money making is socially beneficial.
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