Petition to Include SatAM in the Sonic game franchise

[GekiTheReviewer]

Another thing I gotta mention is that your only reference for why Sonic might need these characters is a game from 5 years ago. Since then Sonic has had some pretty good games and people are starting to believe the blue dude has gotten back on his feet. I think you have a more solid argument when you are saying that the west should have more of a say in what happens to Sonic rather then he NEEDS these characters to survive.

[[USMC]OldSonicFan]

Alright. Obviously we're going to have people who don't think this will work. That's great. I don't really give a s*** if someone says it isn't going to work since it comes at no cost to them to take a few seconds to sign a petition. I'm not asking that we march on SoJ. If you don't try, then you are guaranteed failure. I'll take my chances.

Sandman, I need ACTUAL verbage to put in the petition if you want to see something different. IGive me a few lines to throw in. The franchise isn't where it used to be and as far as the gaming industry is concerned, Sonic is still struggling. No big hits in recent days, just more disappointments if anything. If you want to omit certain things or replace something specifically, let me know. I'd like to make the readers at Sega feel like they have something to gain from doing this and that will not happen if we give them a pat on the back for what they've done recently and say "you know, this old thing used to be neat. What do you think about that?"

I need concrete feedback. WE are writing this document. I need participation here if its going to work anywhere. If there are pieces that cause too much friction, we need to get rid of them; if we need to clarify, we do that; if we need to be more vague, we do that. However, I need actual words to put down here instead of passing thoughts.

[tross]

I will say, I respect you for trying to do the seemingly impossible. I won't say what I think your chances of success are, because I really hope you don't get discouraged. You're absolutely right that if no one tries, the chances of success are 0. So, I'll show my support by signing your petition. It may not be much, but I hope it'll help.

[Neon Black]

Another thing I gotta mention is that your only reference for why Sonic might need these characters is a game from 5 years ago. Since then Sonic has had some pretty good games and people are starting to believe the blue dude has gotten back on his feet.

Agreed. It's best to keep the language positive and present an argument on the good that can come of these changes too instead of focusing on Sega's past mistakes. It's pretty evident now that they've had a few talks about where Sonic's headed and they've learned a few lessons from the abysmal reception Sonic 06 endured from both its fans and critics. I'm wondering if it might be possible to sneak an in angle by using the example of Sonic Chronicles -- one of the things that it received a good amount of praise for was its unusually well-done portrayal of the Sonic characters and universe, and that game was pretty liberal with its use of Western Sonic elements. Perhaps a bit of encouragement in that direction would be appropriate.

I'll also say many have come before with similar projects like this and none of them have gotten far if anywhere. But I'll gladly sign this all the same, it'd be rather pleasant to see -- I can't see why anyone (here) would not want it really. The franchise, as with any, could go any direction in the future, so we might see some bad portrayals or we might see some really good ones. The main thing is, at least if Sonic Team has acknowledged the Western elements and is willing to use them, it gives us Western fans an opportunity to see something we'd really love.

[Dark Fox]

As much as I'd like to see the Satam characters in a Sonic game, it's not going to happen.

Sega is a Japanese company and are going to do things there way. They are not going to change there characters to fit in with the western Sonic canon.

Also we the Satam fans make up only a small part of the Sonic fanbase.
Most Sonic fans only care about the Japanese canon.

Also more people know who Amy, Cream, Shadow, Rouge, and Blaze are, then they do Sally, Rotor, Antione, Bunnie, and Nicole are.

[Tobibrocki]

As soon as this petition goes live, I'll be signing. Its something I wanted to see for many years, and even a cameo as a NPC or so would already satisfy me greatly. It would also kick back my interest in the games to around 100% if something like that would happen, since, I pretty much gave up on the games.

With Sonic Generations though, Sonic Team's Head Honcho Takashi Ilzuka says that its made to celebrate with ALL the fans, so, leaving the Western Continuity out on the side is kinda not staying true to his words if you ask me. Something needs to be done here.

So, yes, you will have my support mate! Its probably not going to affect Generations, but if it goes well, who knows how the future goes.
Perhaps I'm a bit to enthusiastic and postive about this, but it's not like we have anything to lose here.

[GekiTheReviewer]

With Sonic Generations though, Sonic Team's Head Honcho Takashi Ilzuka says that its made to celebrate with ALL the fans, so, leaving the Western Continuity out on the side is kinda not staying true to his words if you ask me.

This should be mentioned somewhere as well, I'll also get to writing out my part

[[USMC]OldSonicFan]

With Sonic Generations though, Sonic Team's Head Honcho Takashi Ilzuka says that its made to celebrate with ALL the fans, so, leaving the Western Continuity out on the side is kinda not staying true to his words if you ask me.

This should be mentioned somewhere as well, I'll also get to writing out my part

Agreed, I'll write that part in today. It's an excellent supporting point.

[[USMC]OldSonicFan]

Taking in account the feedback I've gotten here. I wrote in certain changes and did some reorganization.

DarkNeon: I wasn't sure how to fit in your bit about Sonic Chronicles. If you can point out the Western elements the game did have that could be of use. The only thing I have to say is that since that game is partly a turn-based RPG, it doesn't fit the mold of mainstream Sonic games, which is where I'd like to see them pilot these ideas. Games that venture into other genres don't usually have stellar sales relative to the main titles of the specific genre they're getting into. Pitching Sonic Chronicles benefits could be potentially problematic from a sales performance perspective, especially if they tie Western elements with sluggish sales.

Sandman: I tried to elaborate on why they needed the characters and locales of SatAM but I didn't do too much. Any words you'd like to include in that paragraph? I also incorporated the bit about Sonic titles being made for all fans.

With the support of this forum, I'd like to launch a finished product by August 1st, so state your cases now.


REVISED PORTIONS OF THE PETITION (Letter Heading & Final paragraph set):

We write to you in hopes that our voices may be heard and that together we may bring your company’s treasured mascot back to the forefront of popular culture. While we recognize the Japanese origins and contributions to Sonic the Hedgehog, Sega of America had an instrumental role in his development. He is a multinational character, and we in the West deserve as much of a say in his future as those audiences and developers in the East. We all know that the Sonic franchise has been struggling in the modern game industry. The franchise as a whole lacks continuity, and what’s more, fans demand it. This is why we now formally submit this petition to you for the purpose of including the cast, locales, and general storyline of the Sonic the Hedgehog Saturday morning cartoon series into future Sonic the Hedgehog games and media.

Looking back on Sonic’s history, the Sonic the Hedgehog Saturday morning cartoon series by DiC has stood the test of time with their fan base more so than any other form of Sonic media. Now popularly known as “Sonic SatAM”, the show was cancelled on the premise that it wouldn’t be able to compete with the Power Rangers, which itself only lasted 3 seasons.
However, the Archie Comics Sonic the Hedgehog comic series, which is based on the “SatAM” cartoon, has been running strong since June of 1993, even breaking the Guinness World Record for longest comic book series based on a video game character. It is now in its 18th year of publication. Many comic series, even spinoffs of popular characters like Batman or the X-Men, don’t last more than a few years. This Sonic comic series is highly successful and for good reason. Its stories are deep, the characters have rich personalities, the tone is tastefully darker, and it builds off of the solid foundation provided by the Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon.

The 2006 Sonic the Hedgehog game highlighted how much the franchise was struggling. Reviewers like GamesTM denounced it by saying "Sonic's relationship and kiss with Princess Elise truly marked the point the series had veered off into absolute nonsense." There have been improvements since then, but the Sonic the Hedgehog titles we’ve been given have been underwhelming at best. We are not comfortable staying the course as the Sonic universe drifts into ridiculousness; nor are we content letting our favorite video game character disappear into the pages of history as one who was once more recognizable than Mickey Mouse. It was not merely disappointing game play that didn’t meet the gold standard we expect from the Sonic franchise. In this, the age of next generation gaming, a compelling storyline is expected as well. The Sonic the Hedgehog “SatAM” continuity can give the franchise the depth and drama it needs to excel beyond the competition and return to its former glory. The East has given the Sonic franchise their part, it is time to acknowledge and incorporate Western elements as well.

We, the undersigned, ask that Sega put its faith in the fans of Sonic the Hedgehog and incorporate the world of Mobius, as seen in the Sonic the Hedgehog “SatAM” cartoon series, complete with the Freedom Fighters (Sally Acorn, Bunnie Rabbot, Antoine, and Rotor) into the Sonic game franchise. The hopes, dreams, fears, capabilities, and chemistry of these characters allow the story to become much deeper and allow the audience to become much more invested in their struggles. The locales and dark tone of “SatAM” sets them in a more realistic and exotic world with meaningful conflict and history, opposing the current notion of anthropomorphic animals inexplicably running around in a world populated by humans. Allowing this to happen would give Sonic the continuity and support the franchise desperately needs as it moves further into the 21st century. The tone and character cast are ideal for Western audiences and will certainly gain support among the casual gamers of Japan as well. More importantly, a continuity which resembles the “SatAM” cartoon or the popular comics will appeal to multiple generations of gamers: those who are just starting to play and those who still have not forgotten Sonic and his first blockbuster games. Takashi Ilzuka promised that upcoming titles like Sonic Generations would be made to celebrate Sonic with all the fans. To leave out this popular Western continuity entirely doesn’t ring true to his message. It is high time that the Blue Blur had his own renaissance, and this will give it to him.

[E-122 Psi]

This Sonic comic series is highly successful and for good reason. Its stories are deep, the characters have rich personalities, the tone is tastefully darker, and it builds off of the solid foundation provided by the Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon.

Your Mileage May Vary HIGHLY on that statement. If using SatAm concepts in the games ended up resembling Archie's format I would be deeply annoyed. While the games had a pretentious dark turn earlier the more recent titles I've found much more enjoyable, they have that simplistic and rather approachable feel to them that resembled the original Genesis titles, I think that's where Sonic works, as a zany bombastic cartoon character. Archie to me just feels like a kiddy comic trying to play big boy games.

SatAm worked because despite it's darkness it kept this simplicity and whimsy about it (and even then it wasn't perfect). The concepts aren't this 'golden touch' which will make anything that uses them a piece of art, they need the proper treatment and respect by creators to implement them correctly.

Has anyone ever thought that maybe SEGA's neglect of the western concepts isn't down to some hatred on their part and perhaps just because they feel uneasy trying to depict another person's work that the fans have such obviously high standards of?

[[USMC]OldSonicFan]

This Sonic comic series is highly successful and for good reason. Its stories are deep, the characters have rich personalities, the tone is tastefully darker, and it builds off of the solid foundation provided by the Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon.

Your Mileage May Vary HIGHLY on that statement. If using SatAm concepts in the games ended up resembling Archie's format I would be deeply annoyed. While the games had a pretentious dark turn earlier the more recent titles I've found much more enjoyable, they have that simplistic and rather approachable feel to them that resembled the original Genesis titles, I think that's where Sonic works, as a zany bombastic cartoon character. Archie to me just feels like a kiddy comic trying to play big boy games.

SatAm worked because despite it's darkness it kept this simplicity and whimsy about it (and even then it wasn't perfect). The concepts aren't this 'golden touch' which will make anything that uses them a piece of art, they need the proper treatment and respect by creators to implement them correctly.

Has anyone ever thought that maybe SEGA's neglect of the western concepts isn't down to some hatred on their part and perhaps just because they feel uneasy trying to depict another person's work that the fans have such obviously high standards of?

When I think zany and bombastic, I think "Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog", not "SatAM". Archie has some inspired stories followed by utter disappointments. I agree with your diagnosis of the series, overall. However, Sega has delivered the same mixed results, so I think it best to err on the side with the best track record with respect to our aims and interests. Archie, therefore, simply gives us the best bet with respect to "SatAM".

I feel that SoJ exemplifies a nationalistic pride which takes its roots at the deepest level and leaves everyone outside that circle out to dry. How else can one explain the wasted marketing and manufacturing enterprises in the United States during the Dreamcast days?

Sonic Team is clearly a Japan-centric organization, but SoA had a vested interest in the franchise and that quite clearly influenced the path that Sega followed as a company. We need to make our mark there before we can hope to make Japanese translations and have SoJ and Sonic Team see our case. I don't feel that it is hatred of the American continuity, but rather, an uneasiness to accept a new norm or visions surrounding Robotnik and the future of Sonic's world. Even a conscientious objector story would be a refreshing touch to the new teams, but the drama unfolded without due timing.

[Justin Summerville]

Now, you don't know me - there might be only a couple on this entire board who do - but I'm a rather opinionated person when it comes to something like this......and when I say that, I mean that I support this wholeheartedly. Granted, I know that if this were to work, it couldn't just be a cut-and-paste project, as the characters, storyline, and other aspects would have to be "tweaked" to fit in with the canon of the games. Also, I know that the comics and cartoon were not perfect - nostalgia goggles can be hard to take off - but the concept in itself shows promise of development. Personally, I would refer you (meaning anyone) to the Nostalgia Critic's review of SatAM; he highlights the good points of the show quite succinctly.

Regarding the petition, once this thing gets under way, I'll help with it anyway I can. Of course, if it involves money, that will be a different story.

On a side note, the earlier comment concerning Yuji Naka's opinion of SatAM rather disturbed me, but if I am inferring anything from this article on 1UP.com concerning the cancelled SatAM game (http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8982852&publicUserId=5442525), it sounds like he only saw it in prototypical stages, not necessarily the finished project.

[Miko]

When I think zany and bombastic, I think "Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog", not "SatAM". Archie has some inspired stories followed by utter disappointments. I agree with your diagnosis of the series, overall. However, Sega has delivered the same mixed results, so I think it best to err on the side with the best track record with respect to our aims and interests. Archie, therefore, simply gives us the best bet with respect to "SatAM".

I feel that SoJ exemplifies a nationalistic pride which takes its roots at the deepest level and leaves everyone outside that circle out to dry. How else can one explain the wasted marketing and manufacturing enterprises in the United States during the Dreamcast days?

Sonic Team is clearly a Japan-centric organization, but SoA had a vested interest in the franchise and that quite clearly influenced the path that Sega followed as a company.

SoA also presently has very little power in the direction of Sonic's games if ANY at all. The people who you're ultimately going to need to convince is not SoA but SoJ and the directors of the games who obviously have a preference to the Japanese vision of Sonic the hedgehog. Not designing your petition to argue their case will not give the SoA representatives even any actual ammunition or reason when presenting the idea to SoJ, that they should actually invest in the idea. You will waste their time, your time, and every person who signed the petition's time. Worse yet, SoA continuous failure to sell the idea in any form it's manifested, due to an unwilliness of the SatAM community to compromise their visions with ANYONE else's will only make it harder for SoA to muster confidence to sell the idea to Japan in the future. So really. Not thinking it through cuts the rope for everyone who comes after you. So you don't have to care about other's opinions but it would be in your best interest to be willing to discuss very extensively what you're about to attempt doing.

For example, they tried a different tone using Shadow. It was full of swearing, guns, etc and this did not work for them. Why would trying to sell SatAM on the grounds of having a comparatively gritty tone for their games? And how do you sell SatAM to a Japanese audience who SoJ seems interested in gaining? I'm honestly not a fan of the idea of each and every SatAM character in a game and think that half of them would be a waste to potential of slots that could be put in as far as new characters. Speaking of which I'd only add perhaps 2 or 3 characters since you know the Sonic community is very worried about the increase of characters.

I think to gather the most attention it would've been best to put in western characters in general and to compromise with SoJ's vision instead of hoping like Richard Kuta had (lol I told him not to and he did it anyway, one of the reasons he failed in Japan) will just say "oh to hell with our idea we're going for THIS!" It would be a petition that actually focused on western viewers and fans in general not getting western vision compromised with SoJ if it went beyond SatAM. Why for example do we have one or two generic robot villains occasionally following Eggman when we could just have Scratch and Grounder. Both based off robots SEGA created?

At SoS I believe Naka and Izuka were there and neither sounded interested in the idea of SatAM, nor it's characters. So obviously you're going to have to have more ammunition and willingness to compromise with vision, than this is willing to offer. I think that a game needs do more than take from SatAM. If you're going to argue Archie, suggest some characters or ideas from that too. As a matter of fact, in SEGA's interests to protect themselves it may simply be better to request from a variety of ideas and to capture the spirit of the character rather than a particular backstory written by particular writers that weren't from SEGA.

[Sally-Lover]

I always did want to see the characters from Sonic Saturday AM and Sonic Archie Comics in the games, because I love them, but since I saw how a lot of fans (because most Sonicfans which I know are only fans from the games) have limited knowledge about Sonic in general, so most of them unfortunately hate ideas like this.

Please let me explain what I am thinking about this.

I started to hate the games because of the senseless hatred and bullying towards my favourite character Sally and the American Sonic franchise in general and because of the ignorant thinking in general on the part of the game-fans. (and maybe even Sega themselves)

So I must confess I am not interested into the Games with Sonic in general anymore, but if that petition would be a chance to punch the haters into their ignorant faces I would sign in!
At least to get this success!

Okay, to write also something helpful:

Here some ideas for giving Sally and the other Freedom Fighters good positions in the games:

How about something like “Metal Gear Solid”-Style?

Imagine, you could sneak and hide in those huge levels like in Robotropolis, and it does not have to be a jump and run game – okay, it could be, just with Sonic, but with Sally Acorn you could do things like sneak, hide through the levels, sabotage big machines with help from Nicole or just plan deliverance to rescue other residents of Mobius or just lettings Nicole shooting some lasers to the Swat-Bots and even to Dr. Robotnik himself. ^^
Or getting a ride on some hovercraft. ^^
Bunnie Rabbot could get a Gameplay like Coco Bandicoot from the Crash Bandicoot series.
Kung Fu Fighting Gameplay through the levels.
Antoine could get the important commission to hand down informations and letters to Uncle Chuck and to other persons and locations.
Rotor could do the same things which Tails is doing nowadays in the recent games, in particular, he could repairs machines like the Tornado or just creating Robots to help the Freedom Fighters.
Knuckles would be also nice.
Yeah, he could searching for some things like the Chaos Emeralds, or some other things like the Golden Ring which seems to be also very necessary for the story or he could just get the same Gameplay like in the old classic Sonicgames with jump and run, and floating.
You could leave Tails out of the games or giving him the chance to help with little actions.

[[USMC]OldSonicFan]

SoA also presently has very little power in the direction of Sonic's games if ANY at all. The people who you're ultimately going to need to convince is not SoA but SoJ and the directors of the games who obviously have a preference to the Japanese vision of Sonic the hedgehog. Not designing your petition to argue their case will not give the SoA representatives even any actual ammunition or reason when presenting the idea to SoJ, that they should actually invest in the idea. You will waste their time, your time, and every person who signed the petition's time. Worse yet, SoA continuous failure to sell the idea in any form it's manifested, due to an unwilliness of the SatAM community to compromise their visions with ANYONE else's will only make it harder for SoA to muster confidence to sell the idea to Japan in the future. So really. Not thinking it through cuts the rope for everyone who comes after you. So you don't have to care about other's opinions but it would be in your best interest to be willing to discuss very extensively what you're about to attempt doing.

For example, they tried a different tone using Shadow. It was full of swearing, guns, etc and this did not work for them. Why would trying to sell SatAM on the grounds of having a comparatively gritty tone for their games? And how do you sell SatAM to a Japanese audience who SoJ seems interested in gaining? I'm honestly not a fan of the idea of each and every SatAM character in a game and think that half of them would be a waste to potential of slots that could be put in as far as new characters. Speaking of which I'd only add perhaps 2 or 3 characters since you know the Sonic community is very worried about the increase of characters.

I think to gather the most attention it would've been best to put in western characters in general and to compromise with SoJ's vision instead of hoping like Richard Kuta had (lol I told him not to and he did it anyway, one of the reasons he failed in Japan) will just say "oh to hell with our idea we're going for THIS!" It would be a petition that actually focused on western viewers and fans in general not getting western vision compromised with SoJ if it went beyond SatAM. Why for example do we have one or two generic robot villains occasionally following Eggman when we could just have Scratch and Grounder. Both based off robots SEGA created?

At SoS I believe Naka and Izuka were there and neither sounded interested in the idea of SatAM, nor it's characters. So obviously you're going to have to have more ammunition and willingness to compromise with vision, than this is willing to offer. I think that a game needs do more than take from SatAM. If you're going to argue Archie, suggest some characters or ideas from that too. As a matter of fact, in SEGA's interests to protect themselves it may simply be better to request from a variety of ideas and to capture the spirit of the character rather than a particular backstory written by particular writers that weren't from SEGA.

The petition isn't, in its revised format (which I'll post below in a minute), is geared towards SoA since anything we send to SoJ or Sonic Team would have to be translated into Japanese. That does not, however, make it obsolete. SoA has more professional contacts with SoJ and Sonic Team than any of us here could hope to make on our own. We simply need to get this into the hands of the right people, and that's most easily done by sending this to SoA. I don't expect them to exact any real changes to the Sonic franchise, but rather, I expect them to give this to SoJ with their blessing, providing we rallied enough support for the petition from the Sonic fan base. The one takeaway from this petition is that we want characters and locales from one of the most popular forms of Western Sonic media inserted into upcoming Sonic games, since Sonic is a multinational property and to only take ideas from the East would not be true to the spirit of inclusion that Sega has stated it wanted to express.

Of course there is concern about a large cast crowding the games, but it comes down to the fact that the Japanese are employing a terribly poor writing staff into the games and some of the newer characters from Japan are clunky and unsuited for the games (Beans, Big the Cat, etc). You can have a larger cast of characters, providing they don't just annoy and have some depth.
In its current Japanese form, Sonic doesn't make much sense. They keep pulling the franchise in the wrong directions and inexplicably have anthropomorphic animals running around in a world populated by humans. They're pulling him into alien environments (King Arthur in "Sonic & the Black Knight" /Arabian Nights in "Sonic and the Magic Rings") when they could be using an already successful continuity. By asking Sega to take up the SatAM continuity, it allows them to use the Archie continuity as well. However, we're making general rather than specific demands so that we can allow them room for creativity and so that we don't come off as overbearing.

I don't Sega's failure to sell the idea is due to an uncompromising vision from the SatAM community, but rather, that they think we are smaller than we actually are. By asking for an inclusion of SatAM cast/locales/tone, we set up the foundation for the inclusion of the entire Archie Comics Sonic community, since SatAM is the most basic building block for that series. HOWEVER, by asking for more Western influence, we can potentially also include the bi-curious members of Sonic games or the Sonic cartoons who are currently unaware of SatAM or the Archie continuity. If we publicize this correctly, we can make the SatAM cult following look like a colossus, and that's what I want SoA and SoJ to see. Unless you're in Japan and have the enthusiasm and connections to get SoJ and Sonic Team to see this and the ability to translate the petition, then SoA is the best option.

Considering that online petitions take generally 20 seconds to sign, I hardly think we're wasting anyone's time. It's this same attitude that keeps people from voting, only this doesn't require much effort in terms of registration, getting to a polling place, and all that noise. People only have to think its a decent idea, click on a hyperlink, and sign. It comes at no cost, and its easy to publicize.