Project Geeker: The Lost Third SatAM season?

[Lynchenberg]

For years, I'd been looking for a cartoon I watched as a kid. It was a big influence on me artistically, but I'd forgotten the title of it which prevented me from revisiting it as a teen or adult. Now, I finally figured out it was called Project Geeker. Ironically, a friend of mine who'd never seen the show uncovered it by just going to Doug TeNapel's website. It seems strange I never figured that one out, as I love Earthworm Jim, so it's been hiding in plain sight for years. Basically, it was a cartoon Tenapel did with the folks who adapted Earthworm Jim for animation, and which lasted for one thirteen-episode season.

Anyway, while watching it again, I was really struck by how similar it was to SatAM. I remembered it being a zany superhero show like Freakazoid or The Mask, and it most certainly is. However, because of the voice talent involved, the character archetypes utilized, and the world/plot set-up. it’s kind of like there were another 13 episodes of SatAM released back in the day, it just wasn’t called Sonic the Hedgehog.

Interestingly, the show contains a role reversal for Jim Cummings and Charlie Adler. In Project Geeker, Charlie Adler plays the iron-fisted, deep voiced ruler of the dystopia. Just like SatAM Robotnik, he’s turning a city into a polluted, Blade Runner-esque wasteland once seizing power. However, now Jim Cummings is the lowly, and abused-but-brilliant scientist/underling. (Cummings' character is also a spitting image of Mammoth Mongul if you're a fan of the Ken Penders/Karl Bollers-era Sonic and Knuckles comics.) Jim Cummings also did the voices for the robotic villains, and they sound exactly like Swat-Bots.

The female lead is voiced by Cree Summer, who played Dulcy in SatAM. She struck me as a less sensitive, more abrasive version of Princess Sally. Plus, she has a robotic arm and robotic legs, just like Bunnie. And there’s a talking Dinosaur in it, who comes from Dinopolis which is a city that exists under the dystopia (Griff anyone?) He’s a little techy, but laid back and cool to talk to. That reminded me a lot of how I see Rotor. Admittedly, it's more how Rotor always was in my head-canon more than in the actual show, but still.

Finally, the lead character is kind of like if you took Sonic (more the Adventures version than SatAM,) and Tails and squashed them together into one character (an innocent, naive, and sweet child like Tails in SatAM, but who is additionally a whacky, Looney Tunes-esque trickster like Sonic in AoStH.)

Watching it again, I almost think Doug TeNapel would be the perfect person to do a third season of SatAM. Essentially, he did one already, and this is it. If I was an animation producer with clout, I'd probably put him on my SatAM-reboot dream team, along with Garth Ennis (if he could tone himself down to write something for all-ages,) Karl Bollers (if he could keep the relationship drama to a minimum,) Pat Allee, and Len Jansen (and perhaps Ken Penders if he was easier to work with than I've heard reported.)

[Prince By-Tor]

Looks like an interesting show, and the animation is very similar as the better U.S./Canadian cartoons; but it actually reminds me more of Sonic Underground art wise and atmospherically than SatAM as it has a noted zaniness with a kooky guy who can seem to do whatever he needs in a squash and stretch cartoony manner with a dinosaur comrade and a female lead that seemed to have come out of old Heavy Metal magazines. Actually, in some ways this show reminds me somewhat, at least character wise as the progenitor of the current show Uncle Grandpa with Geeker being of Uncle Grandpa's character and Noah being Mr. Gus, but that's about as far as it goes; probably the creators of UG watched this show and were inspired by it.
Anyway, I do agree with you as to the similarities with SatAM as you stated. A lot of these were found in older animated films from the 1980s and '90s such as the Canadian film Rock & Rule ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_%26_Rule ) and many of Don Bleuth's early works as well.
It's sad that the show was, like SatAM, very popular unceremoniously cancelled by studio execs and Government regulation; at least partly like what happened with SatAM.

Thanks for sharing.

[LogiTeeka]

Watching it again, I almost think Doug TeNapel would be the perfect person to do a third season of SatAM. Essentially, he did one already, and this is it. If I was an animation producer with clout, I'd probably put him on my SatAM-reboot dream team, along with Garth Ennis (if he could tone himself down to write something for all-ages,) Karl Bollers (if he could keep the relationship drama to a minimum,) Pat Allee, and Len Jansen (and perhaps Ken Penders if he was easier to work with than I've heard reported.)

I'm not so sure TenNapel's cartoony art style would fly well with those who liked SatAM's dark/gritty direction. I mean, Sonic had a cartoonish design in SatAM and it didn't blend too well with the tone of the show; most of the cast had pseudo-realistic, down-to-Earth designs while Sonic's was more goofy and colorful. Giving the show a more cartoony vibe might make Sonic blend in more with the environment, but it would betray the darker tone and setting established by the original series.

And I still don't get your choice for Penders' involvement. I mean, I can understand maybe Bollers since he had a better grasp at what what made the Sonic series popular to begin with (even if some of his ideas were downright baffling in terms of execution), but Penders? The guy cares very little for SatAM or Sonic in general and is more concerned with dealing with his own creations. And most of the stories he wrote don't hold up very well nowadays for various reasons - not a reputation you'd want for a proposed revival.

[Lynchenberg]

Hi Lynchenberg, I'm going to be contrary to everything you say for the sake of being contrary.

Cool man, have fun with that. Anyway, I've got work to do.

[LogiTeeka]

Hi Lynchenberg, I'm going to be contrary to everything you say for the sake of being contrary.

Cool man, have fun with that. Anyway, I've got work to do.

Sheesh... Sensitive much?

Sorry if I offended you. I'm not trying to be contrary to anything. I'm just inquiring your choices, that's all. There's nothing wrong with being curious.

[Lynchenberg]

This isn't a thread to argue about Ken Penders or SatAM designs. This was just meant to say, "Hey guys, this is another cool dystopian 90s cartoon with some similarities to SatAM. Check it out if you want 13 more episodes of something similar."

I've told you before why I think Sonic's design worked for SatAM. I've told you why I think that while SatAM is more grounded than AoStH, it's still a whacky, squash-and-stretchy cartoon to an extent. And I've told you multiple times over the course of many, many threads both here and on FUS my feelings on Ken Penders. I've told you why I like certain aspects of his writing. I've told you why I don't like other aspects of his writing. I've told you why I think it was good he left the book when he did. I've told you why I think he had a positive impact on the comic during his time as a writer.

In this thread, I briefly alluded to Ken Penders once at the end. I didn't even say I would recruit him. In brackets, I wrote that I MIGHT consider it, IF he was willing to be part of a team and not the sole person in charge, and that he probably wouldn't agree to that. And it's just a little mention at the end of a fantasy scenario that will never happen. It was just something to daydream about, it wasn't meant to please anyone other than myself. In real life, even if I was in the position to reboot SatAM, I wouldn't do it. The Sonic fanbase is broken to the point that no matter what anyone does with the character, they'll be crucified for it. I'd much rather develop original ideas that can be taken on their own merit.

Look, I know what you're like at this point. You've never once made a reply to a single one of my posts that wasn't looking to start a debate. In fact, I've never seen you reply to ANYONE's post in a way that wasn't trying to rope them into an argument. I've seen you troll other users this way as well. If you really just wanted to promote discussion, why are you still asking me to justify my views on the exact same subjects when I've justified them on multiple occasions in the past? You know how I feel, and this isn't the thread for that.

"Come on," you'll say. "I just don't get why you'd consider Penders, it's baffling." Guess what? You don't HAVE to get it. I don't get why you think the new designs for the Freedom Fighters are good. Yes, you've explained why, so I understand your views, but I don't "get" them because I disagree. It's calling having an opinion. I've accepted you have one that I disagree and I've moved on from it. Why can't you?

[LogiTeeka]

You're calling me a troll? I don't recall ever trying to insult you or your opinions. I just stated my options on the subject, like what you and everyone else has been doing on these forums, and you treat me like a schoolyard bully.

I've seen most of the other topics on this forum and frankly, as of lately, most of them just aren't interesting anymore. Currently, you're the most active user on the FUS forums, thus most of the latest posts are typically started by you. If there's nothing to discuss or share my thoughts on, I pass them. But if there's an interesting topic, I like to throw in my two sense. It's that simple. It has nothing to do with "harassing" you.

If you like Penders for whatever reason, that's perfectly fine. Everyone has the right to their own opinions, but there's no harm in asking for their particular reasons (even if there is none). I mean, it's been a while since we last talked and I feel like catching up with you before we chat.

[Lynchenberg]

If you were asking me to justify my views on something new, that would be different. But you're asking me to repeat myself, yet again. I have nothing new to say about Ken Penders. I don't see why you keep asking me to repeat the same things I've said multiple times already. Cliff notes: I think his dialogue was generally poor, (although it was a lot better in the Knuckles series when he was writing material he had passion for,) but he was able to build interesting, layered worlds that weren't too much for children to get a handle on. That's all, nothing really new to say.

In terms of Doug TeNapel potentially working on a SatAM reboot, I was thinking more in terms of the writing than the designs. But even stylistically, if TenNapel wanted to redesign the cast, I honestly wouldn't mind a more whacky, rubber hose look to the designs in general. Would all SatAM fans want that? I don't know, probably not, but I also don't really care. It's not my responsibility to please all the fans, I was just spitballing what I personally think would be cool.

It's kind of useless to try and come up with something that would please all Sonic fans. No matter what you do, some people will complain that it's too dark, others will complain it's not dark enough, others will complain it's too much like the games, others will complain it's not enough like the games. Some will want the mythology of Sonic the Comic, some will want it to be like Pre-Genesis Wave Archie, some will want something like what Ian Flynn does now, some will want something like season one SatAM, some will want something like season two SatAM, some will want Sonic X, some will want Sonic Underground, and it goes on and on and on. I'm never going to please everyone, especially with a SatAM reboot. That would immediately cause uproar from the fans who prefer the Sega games or Sonic Boom, and they would instantly write it off for containing the Sally character before anything's even released yet. Why bother trying, especially when I'm just daydreaming? You can't please everyone, might as well please yourself.

[LogiTeeka]

I see. Interesting.

Out of curiosity, how would you handle the Sonic franchise? Would you model it after SatAM, or the games? Or maybe both? Or perhaps an original, new direction?

[Lynchenberg]

If I was in charge, I'd probably handle it the way DC handled it's properties back in the time I was a reader (perhaps they still do, but I don't really read DC or Marvel comics anymore.) I'd release different media to appeal to different portions of the fanbase. I'd acknowledge that there are a number of different continuities with different tones and that each one exists in its own universe. I wouldn't try to hide these versions from different parts of the world, or try to bury them to favour one particular continuity. I'd put them all out there for fans to choose from, and if they didn't like one, they could check out another.

In terms of the comics, I'd allow Ian Flynn do the wrap-up he intended for Sonic Underground in Sonic Universe. Then in the main series, I'd establish that after the Genesis Wave struck the second time, it didn't actually reboot the universe, but split it into two separate timelines. This would establish that the original continuity still exists in another reality. Then I'd try to negotiate something fair with Ken Penders (not saying I'd have success, but I'd try.) If I could accomplish that, I'd work with Penders and Flynn to wrap up the storyline of the original Archie Sonic universe. I'd like to bring closure to it with a degree of poignancy, so it would be easier for fans to part with. If I couldn't work out something with Penders, I'd still go with that plan, but only with Ian Flynn. We'd try to do the best conclusion to the original Archie Sonic universe we could, without directly referencing any of Ken Penders' characters or content. It would probably have mixed results at best without Penders' cooperation, but it would be something.

Once the original Archieverse was concluded in as satisfactory a manner as possible, I'd leave that universe alone but keep it in print and in the public consciousness, the same way DC chose to handle the DC Animated Universe, once the conclusion of Justice League Unlimited brought it's storyline to an end. There would be no retcons, no reboots, just a completed body of work that can be enjoyed without being compromised by years of reboots, retcons, and endless continuity.

After that was taken care of, I'd let the main post-Genesis Wave Archie Sonic series continue as it is. However, I would lift as many of the Sega mandates as possible. Ian Flynn would be allowed nearly total creative freedom. I'd establish to the rest of Sega that Sonic is more of a character than a franchise, and that he appears in various different incarnations. As such, we'd be better off leaving the comic alone to be it's own entity, not an advertisement for the games. If the comic is good in it's own right, it will be more likely to create new readers instead of playing exclusively to fans of the games, and that would benefit us more in the long term.

I'd wait until Sonic Boom finished, and then I'd start syndicating the original two seasons of SatAM again, along with a new Sonic cartoon based mainly on the current Archie universe. This would probably make it easier for younger viewers to accept the SatAM cast, as they'd be appearing in a cartoon closer to the version of Sonic they recognize, rather than just SatAM by itself. As a child, I watched old and modern shows on television that had conflicting continuities, Batman being one example. However, I had no difficultly accepting that the Adam West Batman show was completely different to Batman The Animated Series. Certain characters crossed over, certain ones didn't, and they looked different, but I was intelligent enough to realize that they were different representations of the same character, as were the comics, Tim Burton films, etc. Modern children are intelligent enough to realize that, just as long as you don't handle conflicting continuities the way Sega did in 1999.

Once SatAM had been airing as it was for a time, I'd organize a continuation of SatAM that was based exclusively on what was established in the show. Nothing from Sega, nothing from Archie, just pure SatAM. With the writers I hired, (perhaps my dream team, perhaps other ones,) I'd work out a clear storyline with a beginning, middle, and end, that may run for two to three seasons. If successful, it would iron out the problems fans had with the original SatAM, expand on what was good about it, and bring it to a satisfying conclusion for both old and new viewers. Then I'd let it live on in a DVD collection, on Netflix, etc, and leave the original SatAM universe alone.

Meanwhile, the cartoon based on the current Archie series would continue airing. When it was time for it to be cancelled, I'd let them figure out for themselves how to end it. In terms of the Sega games, I don't know much about or have much interest in them, so I'd do market research and hire the best programmers I could and let them do their job without interfering. I'd also allow Sega and Sony to continue developing their current movie as is. I wouldn't try to mix what was going on in other media into the games or current movie project, my only concern would be that the various game projects were entertaining and satisfying to general consumers and longtime fans of the game-exclusive end of the series. I'd release non-canon games to tie into the various cartoon and comic projects, as well as toys and other merchandise, but strictly for promotional purposes. They wouldn't be a part of the Sonic gaming continuity. Like I said, these universes should co-exist side-by-side, without stepping on one another's toes.

Once that was all taken care of, I'd look to perhaps launch a sister comic to the main Ian Flynn Archie series that was set in it's own universe. This would expand upon what I liked about each various version of Sonic and do something new with it. I would be primarily inspired by Bollers/Penders material and SatAM. I'd also look into producing another theatrical film project that was based mainly on the 1990s Genesis games, and SatAM, with sprinklings of and characters from other iterations of Sonic. I'd also probably develop two simultaneously broadcast cartoons based on the Fleetway comics and on the then-current Sega games. But that would be in the distant future. What I'd want to accomplish most is a proper conclusion to the Ken Pender/Karl Bollers Archie universe and to the SatAM universe, without forgetting or stepping on the toes of fans of other versions of the character.

[LogiTeeka]

Yeah, I agree with you on that.

I mean, Marvel and DC operate just fine having multiple iterations of their properties, yet SEGA is actively trying to ignore all theirs. They're trying to act like Nintendo when it comes to their franchises, but Nintendo has a good reason for ignoring previous incarnations: the "Super Mario Bros." movie. That movie was a hilariously-awful Hollywood attempt at adapting and cashing-in on a videogame series and it suffered greatly because of it. And because of how squandered it was, they've been reluctant in allowing other adaptions of their properties (though they seem to be calming down as of lately). It's perfectly understandable.

But SEGA? Most of their alternate continuities were well-receipted by fans. Heck, quite a bit of them actually prefer those iterations over the games. Yet SEGA is just too blind in fallowing Nintendo's policies to really pay much attention to it.

Come to think of it, most of the mandates surrounding the comic seemed to take affect after the release of "Sonic '06". Maybe that's their reason for acting so uptight lately. I don't know which one's more embarrassing; Nintendo selling their soul to the devil (Hollywood) for profit or SEGA creating the very thing they've come to regret.

[Lynchenberg]

I don't know much about Nintendo, but I think Sega's actually a lot worse than they are when it comes to these things. Shigeru Miyamoto has spoken in a complimentary manner about the Super Mario Bros film, you'd never, ever see Sega do the same for Sonic the Comic, SatAM, Underground, or Adventures. Speaking of which, I think I'll include the quote because what Minamoto says SHOULD be Sega's policy regarding the comics.

"[The Mario Brothers film] was a very fun project that they put a lot of effort into. The one thing that I still have some regrets about is that the movie may have tried to get a little too close to what the Mario Bros. video games were. And in that sense, it became a movie that was about a video game, rather than being an entertaining movie in and of itself."

This the policy I'd take if I was in change of the Sonic franchise. I think Miyamoto's attitude and business sense is why Mario is relevant and timeless to this day, while Sonic is dying a slow, inglorious death.

[Prince By-Tor]

http://www.p4rgaming.com/sega-criticize ... uin-sonic/

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/former ... 0-6425464/

Sega is a company that is its worst enemy; there is so much infighting and sabotaging from within. Frankly it surprises me that Sega-Sammy still owns itself and hasn't gone out of business or been bought out.

[Lynchenberg]

Well, looks like I's gots to gets me some eddy-cation!